Curse

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Instead of taking two Hero Monks, drop one for Sab's N/Rt Restorer and use the Monk as anti-spike and Hex removal.

Heal spam and party heals is taken care of by the N/Rt. The N/Rt also has a heap of condition removal - taking it from the Monk's bar greatly reduces pressure on their energy management. There's no need to take a dedicated Healer or Protector, 2 or 3 skills in either line is enough to do the job. Don't take spammable energy-heavy skills - they can't run them properly and will spam until their energy bombs. Taking a rez on a Monk means it won't make the red bars go up and puts your party at greater risk. Leave battle-rezzing to more offensive characters who can afford to stop attacking for 3-6 secs.

With this in mind a Hero Monk bar is pretty easy to construct - Big Heal, Conditional Heal (if x then y), Free Heal (signet), Condition Removal (optional if taking a N/Rt), Hex Removal, Small Prot, Big Prot, Energy Management.

Here's what i use, works a treat -

Word of Healing [e]
Dwayna's Kiss
Signet of Rejuvenation
Cure Hex
Remove Hex
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Guardian / Shield of Absorption
Aegis

If you need party-wide healing, try Healer's Boon [e], Heal Party and Glyph of Lesser Energy.

The effectiveness of a Monk also depends on how your spec the rest of your party's build. If you have a weak offense, it doesn't matter how strong your defense is if the Monks run out of energy. I'd rather drop Hero Monks for Henchy Monks and take more offensive Heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blurmedia

didnt anyone else notice the 1year ress?

d'Oh! Thanks for the heads-up...i didn't notice

distilledwill · Mar 14, 2008, 11:03 AM // 11:03

I quite like to take a WoH monk hench sometimes, a good prot/heal split makes a good deal of difference. but i think if you play smart and take offensive heroes with some good synergy then there isnt much need for a monk hero and henches will do absolutely fine.

for reference, this is what i use:
[card]Word Of Healing[/card][card]Signet Of Rejuvenation[/card][card]Guardian[/card][card]Dismiss Condition[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Shield Of Absorption[/card][card]Resurrection Chant[/card]

Lishy · Mar 14, 2008, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Huh?My Glimmer of Light Tahlkora is godly!
Your just need to learn how the AI works and what skills to put.Heroes can only be as good as the player y'know.
Also remember to lock rez

thehoweller · Mar 14, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

" Their AI is the same - give them the same skill bar and they will perform the same. Tis true of any of the hero/hench - Sousuke isn't anymore or less effective than Zhed - they just have different skins."

Nope sorry you're wrong. Zhed runs in Sou' doesn't. I read that some heroes are "smarter" than others or act more aggressive than others. Goren for example is said to be strong but not real bright.

Biggest laugh I've had in a long while...It's like he thinks Anet actually put time into hero AI...~laugh~

But yeah, Heroes are JUST as dumb as their henchmen counterpart with one exception...You make their bar.

Don't blame Sousuke for being more stupid than Zhed, I mean...You did put Mending on his bar.

stretchs · Mar 14, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

My hero healers almost never come out of drydock. 99% of the time I go with henchies for healing to go along with the WoR NRt. I think the last time I did bring heros, I had them for Shards of Orr smiting. Speaking of which, anyone have a good smiting build that heros run well (aka withing much microing)?

Thanks

Darkside · Mar 14, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I almost always use the Hench monks not because they are more effective at healing then hero monks but because they do the job fine and I would rather use my hero slots on something you can't get via hench like an mm bomber.

byteme! · Mar 15, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

Nope sorry you're wrong. Zhed runs in Sou' doesn't. I read that some heroes are "smarter" than others or act more aggressive than others. Goren for example is said to be strong but not real bright.

Do you also believe everything you see on television?

P.S. Don't believe everything people tell you. If they are wrong and you start believing them that would make you equally as wrong or ridiculously easy to persuade.

Ornlu · Mar 15, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

one thing i dont like is sin hero's i mean you set up SP build or whatnot for PvP or PvE an zenmai runs off and uses tiger stance instead of SP, but thereas im new to this hero buisness only had nf 2 weeks, but i found panaku and whatsername, henchwoman are pretty good :S

Terraban · Mar 15, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Heroes make HORRIBLE Assassins. They don't do anything right...

Antithesis · Mar 15, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

They can run a Critical Barrager...can't say that i'd take it, but it can be done.

MasterSasori · Mar 16, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Heros should definitely be at least as efficient as henchmen...

Check your builds. There may be a problem with your builds.

Super Igor · Mar 18, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Sure Hero Monks are better, yes, I still dont like Monk heroes instead of N/Rts, N/Mos and Rt/s but sometimes the good old Divine Favor bonus on Healing or a Hardprot that can make a character immune to damage comes in Handy, and if u give ur Hero less things to spam and Micro well then its good.

In the rest they are the same.

Kiluna · Mar 22, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

Note: This is not a complaint, or rant, it's a question..

Has anyone else experienced this, Hero healers cannot keep up with hencie healers in intense fights? (I never thought I'd say this, but) Menhlo, etc can really out heal and regenerate faster it seems, than the heroes can. The Heroes seem to be only as fast as player healers.

Anyone else experience this? If so any ideas why?

Yes i have experienced this, if i use 2 hero healers i have to most of time use 1 or 2 hench healers too as they fail to stay/keep stuff alive, even 1 Charr Blade/Axemaster rapes them in 1 sec. Have had some annoying moments in really easy places with ~-30% DP as while i try to kill mobs in order of threat (spike healers fast, interrupt and kill aoe mobs next, leave monks to handle = kite, melee mobs).

Works alot better with hench healers and heroes to do damage.

Don't have any idea why is it like this, i believe they have different AI for heroes than henches which works different.

Edit:
And the builds on my hero monks shouldn't be problem, other is prot with the most common prot skills (aegis, guardian, RoF, PS and so on). Other is healing with Ele as secondary for glyph with the nerfed aoe heal elite (forgot the name, think i should change it since it heals next to nothing and got high cooldown) and the normal aoe heal. Don't remember the exact builds, i would say they are the common prot/healing ones, nothing unsual in them.

Edit2:
What is this Sab's build people keep talking about? :S Had nearly 1 year pause from GW and there is alot of changes and new stuff since then. So would be nice if someone could give some sort of link (tryed search with not so much results)

Ekelon · Mar 22, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

The reason henchman are better than heroes is usually because:

1. You gave your hero a bad bar.
2. You don't have your hero fully equipped.

Henchman have a generic 5-6 skill bar that is highly efficient. All it takes is WoH and Orison of healing to keep up your party for the henchman. When you start adding 50 billion other things, your heroes start draining their energy by trying to maintain aegis, remove hexes, remove conditions, and heal all at the same time. A henchman has one simple task, heal.

Boogz · Mar 22, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

They can run a Critical Barrager...can't say that i'd take it, but it can be done.

wich is the only build that assassins heroes run perfectly

the AI is basically the same, the only thing that changes is the build that you gave them, personally, i use the monk henchmen and run offensive and defensive heroes, sometimes a partygon

.Qualengeist. · Mar 22, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

The reason henchman are better than heroes is usually because:

1. You gave your hero a bad bar.
2. You don't have your hero fully equipped.

Henchman have a generic 5-6 skill bar that is highly efficient. All it takes is WoH and Orison of healing to keep up your party for the henchman. When you start adding 50 billion other things, your heroes start draining their energy by trying to maintain aegis, remove hexes, remove conditions, and heal all at the same time. A henchman has one simple task, heal.

So you think, you should give only about 4-5 Healskills your Heal-Hero?
So there is no energy draining I think...
Or did i missunderstand you ?

Amy Awien · Mar 22, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

That is one possible approach, though still too many. Better yet are skills that in one way or another reclaim energy.

Antithesis · Mar 23, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Elessar.

So you think, you should give only about 4-5 Healskills your Heal-Hero?
So there is no energy draining I think...
Or did i missunderstand you ?

It's the Condition removal that'll drain your Monk more often than not. If you can offload the bulk of Condition and Hex removal to say a Song of Purification+Hexbreaker Aria Para and a Weapon of Remedy+Mend Body & Soul N/Rt, you ease the load on a Hero Monk allowing them to perform the task of healing much better.

Give them a primary role as a Healer and secondary roles for Prot, Condition (if absolutely necessary) and Hex removal and you'll be much happier for it. Fortunately this can all be done on the one skillbar using a Word of Healing hybrid. How it performs is ultimately down to the way you've setup the rest of the team to handle the other defensive roles.

upier · Mar 23, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

The big question I have always wondered was - do hench function under the same rules as the player/heroes or do they function under the rules of foes.
The sole reason why I am wondering is because of the +1 e-regen found on foes which might explain why I sometimes get the feeling that henchie healers get away with more then heroes.

Draginvry · Mar 23, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Huh?My Glimmer of Light Tahlkora is godly!
Your just need to learn how the AI works and what skills to put.

Yes, Glimmer Tahl is one of my favorite builds. She is so quick and efficient with glimmer as long as you give her energy management that she can't screw up.

But the main reason I like hero monks over hench is that you can gear them for however much defense you need. Hench monks will waltz into aggro with a dozen monsters, only to cast Healing Breeze on themselves right before they die.

You can minimize this stupidity on heros by giving them more protection, and giving them skills which they can reliably use to keep themselves alive, as well as the party.

Henches are only good because people put a bunch of 10e skills on their hero monks. For instance, HB should never be on a hero bar. I have never seen a hero use HB in any way that helped the party whatsoever. They either cast it on someone who is hardly taking damage, or on someone who is just about to die.

Heros spam skills. So put skills on them which won't instantly drain their energy. Just because a skill is OMG IMBA for a player doesn't mean a hero can use it. Chances are they will use it at the wrong time, and for the wrong reasons.

But since heros have such great reaction times, they can be better than players if you give them a skill bar that they can't screw up. Your hero's skill bar should be abusing his timing, not his intelligence (since he doesn't have any)